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    Ralph Peters’ New Map [Updated]

    I am a bit behind on blogging do to home Internet flakiness.

    So, I just read Ralph Peter’s article Blood Borders: How a better Middle East would look.

    It was interesting.

    Here are my quick thoughts:

    • If the idea is that state boundaries that match closer national/ethnic boundaries would lead to less conflict, then this is something the US should support.
    • The US has been okay with the fragmentation of Yugoslavia.
    • In the Mideast we have opposed fragmentation and seem more concerned with maintaining current lines…how has that worked out?
    • If the USA where to come out and support the redraw of state lines along national/ethnic lines, that would shake things up.
    • Political forces in the Mideast would be turned inward on there new state-building possibilities.
    • International political debate would be refocused.
    • It would be another system shock to shake up the Mideast.
    • How many of these new states would develop into democracies?
    • Who know several, most likely?
    • It would sort of be federalism for the Arab/Islamic world.

    I will be ordering his new book.

    Update: Here is the Map:



    (Originally uploaded to Flickr by heval)

    Update: This post has been getting alot of traffic. Now I know why. Atlas Shrugged Reports that CAIR has an “alert”. If CAIR is against it, that is most likely a good sign for its soundness.

    Update: Phatic Communion’s related post has for reference an animated graphic that flip between the current map and the Peters map.

    Update: Here is a link to a newly-discovered map outlining T.E. Lawrence’s proposals for the reconstruction of the Middle East at the end of the First World War.

    Update: The above referenced map is discussed at Bloggledygook.

    Update: The Glittering Eye is also discussing it.

    Update: Catholicgauze suggests many alternative changes from the Peters idea that are interesting.

    Update: A commenter on Reddit notes some surpising acronyms hidden in the Peters article.

    42 Responses

    1. Yes it appealing to me as a Muslim and a Pashtun and a Pakistani….

    2. Farid, are you living in the region currently? Do folks identify as Pashtun first and Pakastani second? Or Pakastani first, Pashtun second? Or just as Pashtun? Or is it it a broad mix?

    3. Well… I am from pakistan (Peshawar, NWFP) and let me clarify it for you. Pushtoon is a major ethnic group but comparing them with others such as Punjabis, Balouchis and sindhis, Pushtoons are not as bigger a group as all of them. Although their agenda of a more powerful Muslim state based upon the true Islamic rules and regulations is, one can say, in a slight dispute with other groups. They are more religious comparatively to other groups at the same time more isolated and backward (which isn’t exactly Islam). Well if want to know something more about Pakistan, mail me at fahady_man@msn.com.
      And yes, no one in Pakistan will consider Pushtoon or Punjabis or Sindis and Balochis first. For al of us, Pakistan is the first priority.

    4. we are brother all muslims sunni or shia
      Im from Turkey and Im turk
      CcC

    5. I am also a Pashtoon. I believe we are all muslims wether Sunni or Shia. The fight by Hizbullah in Isreal proved that all we are united. This map will prove living in fools paradise and a charming fantacy. Mohib Ullah Kakar Qila Saifullah Ph:92823-502030

    6. I am Human from one billion years, a pashtoon from 5000 years, a muslim from 1400 yeras, a Pure Pakistani from 59 years. I belive America is still in fantacy in this uni-polar world. She is trying to occupy mineral resources for its well being by marking the globe with imaginary lines, but soon the unipolar status of the world is going to die and lines may be marked in US map , the same as marked on the map of the former USSR after the cold world war

    7. Dear Mohib Ulla,

      I was wondering what historical document are you refering to by asserting that you are a Pashtoon since 5,000 years. Would you please share your references on this claim with me? I am currently working on a research that would be enriched by your inputs. Thanks, Idrees

    8. This is just stupid what muhib said. Everybody was some thing before 5000 and before 59 years some was Khan, Boloch, Sardar, Jatt etc but it doesn’t mean that our religion or country has second priority. That is the reason foreigners wrote on this issue because of silly cost and creed.
      For Ahmed: Muhib copy words of Nawab Akbar Bugti which he use in an interview to international media person. He doesn’t have proof.

    9. I dont like the idea.. firstly because Muslims should be united and there should be no Israel at all in the map..they should be only a state in palestine.. better still, all the Muslim country should be under one rule of the Caliph.. I dont really think we need the Islamic Sacred State.. They can just be part of Saudi…

    10. I am sure many of the people on the border side will be glad to become a part of their desired country but do you realise the number of innocent people Men, Women and Children who will lose their lives for something totaly targeted to ethically divide muslims. Hello!!! does any one Read Koran? and i mean Not just in arabic but its translation in your respective languages. WHy cant everyone live peacefully , for how long is our avg life 60 or 70 thats it ..ultimatly we have to die so why not live in love and harmony…The funny thing is how the west is so worried about the muslim countries whose majority of popu is uneducated , lack the basic neccesities etc

    11. Hafsa,

      I just bought an English language version of the Koran, that I should start reading in a few weeks.

      We in the West (I am an American and a Westerner) do not worry about all Muslims; we worry about those extremist Muslims who claim to speak for Islam who keep coming at us and seem to be signaling that they will keep coming with bigger and bigger guns/bombs until they destroy us or we destroy them.

      The West has had in its history minority tyrants/elites controlling the the majority/common-people for the benefit of the elites against the interest of the common people of the society as a whole.

      The western enlightenment led to the prosperity and the scientific and artistic achievements of the west by maximizing the human potential in every one for the benefit of every one.

      There is no place for Sharia or Islamofascism in the democratic world.

      There is plenty of room for democratic Muslims in the democratic world.

      We in the West want you to have the freedom and achievements of the West.

      We want you also to be free of the tyranny of your religious and political elites who do not have your or your children’s interest in mind.

    12. To,
      Mr. Purpleslog and all other westeners who think they are our masters!!!

      We the Muslims are first of all humans (just to let you know), next according to the democratic rules of the west, we have the rights to chose our path. Who are you to show us the right way or the wrong way?
      Now in reply to your first para:
      Those people you think are extremist were made extremist by your so called justified doings.
      I think you have forgot the long lasting issues of Plaestine-Israel, Kashmir, Chechniya, etc. Now you are making a new conflict by creating a new map and creating more extremists(according to you, but we say they are freedom fighters). I think you and your “THINK TANKS” have already made enough havoc.
      Now for the next para.
      You say you are enlightened, everyday a new story is created which ultimately goes against Muslims, e.g. just a few days ago a Muslim was sent off the plane just because he was praying. Now how do you call this “Enlightenment”?
      The only thing that you have acheived for now is the acheivement in science, and this thing in wrong hands creates the just the situation we are in now.
      The only thing that could lead us to prosperity is Islam, I have read that you have just bought a new Quran, I hope that you read it with open heart.
      Now let me quote the words of Wikipedia:
      “The original fascist (fascismo) movement ruled Italy from 1922 to 1943 under the leadership of Benito Mussolini. In time, the generic term fascism came to cover a class of authoritarian political ideologies, parties, and political systems. The most notable of these parties, created after World War I, are the National Socialist German Workers Party (Nazis) under Adolf Hitler but also Hungary’s Arrow Cross Party, Romania’s Iron Guard, Spain’s Falange and the French political movements led by former socialists Marcel Déat and Jacques Doriot and others. Some authors reject this broader use of the term or exclude certain of these parties and regimes”

      This shows that facism as you say is the creation of your “enlightened” culture.
      The only thing that keeps us away from not creating an ideal world are the leaders that you have planted in our countries.
      If only a little chance is provided to the people they would go for the Shariah Rule, this can be proved by the 2001 Elections in Pakistan(where 2 provinces have the so called jihadis’ government), Iranian Presidential elections(where hardline president Mehmood Ahmedinezad won against liberal Hashmi Rafsanjani), Palestianian Elections(Where hardline government of hamas was formed against the liberal Fatah) and last but not the least the Lebanon Elections where Hizbullah won with great majority(and have proved their worth by keeping the faith of Lebanonese people and defeating Israel).
      I hope this clears up your mind against Islam and Muslims.
      Reagrds,
      Muhammad Muneeb Hashmi.

    13. I am Turkish and I’m living in Turkey, Istanbul.I was born in Istanbul. My father is Turkish, my grand mother(mother’s mother) is Kurdish. Regarding to this funny map above, Istanbul, the city I’m living will be in Turkey, my father’s native city Mersin will be in Turkey, and my mother’s native city Mardin will be in Imaginary Free Kurdistan. The problem is I have relatives living in Mardin, and Mersin.(Grandfathers, grandmothers,cousins, aunts, uncles…)
      How can this borders be considered as a solution in this matter? In fact in Turkey there are many(hundreds of thousands)familes like ours. What will happen afterwards if something like that will happen?

      Besides after 50’s with the industrilisaton of Turkish economy. Many families immigrated from east to west part of Turkey.They bought houses, lands, founded companies,married with others.
      As an example in Istanbul there are more Kurdish people living than in many of the cities in the eastern Turkey.What will happen to them, if The Imaginary Free Kurdistan will be founded on Turkey’s land?
      Also the population in the eastern Turkey is not only Kurdish People.There are many Turkish People living there.

      In Turkey there are mainly three different kinds of Kurdish People( Zaza, Kirmanci, Sorani). They even can not understand each other when they speak their native languages.So who will be in charge in that Imaginary Free Kurdistan.Or If the Kurdish people in Iraq (They are also different from the ones in Turkey) will be in charge what kind of advantage will the TURCO KURDISH gain?I do not believe that Turco Kurdish people will want to leave a democratic western country and be minorities in a country ruled by Iraq Kurdish Tirans.

      In Turkey we have a democracy, and capitalist system.We had two Kurdish Presidents and many Kurdish high ranked generals in the army. “I didn’t see a black president in USA, except the the TV series 24”
      The counrty is integrated with the western world. So people must be crazy to leave it and want to be a part of a feudal kurdish country.

      Besides Turkey is not an artificial state like Iraq or Yugoslavia that has founded by other countries. Turks are living in Anotolia, from the year 1071 and conquered every centimeter by fights.So the only way to get them out is to fight for every centimeter.
      The questions are who will finance this fight and who will fight?
      I do not think that none of western counries (Including USA) will finance it and will be able to find someone to fight.

      As last words “No land for you fools, forget it”

    14. http://www.turkishweekly.net/comments.php?id=2202

      Drawing Borders with Other People’s Blood: A Brief Comment on Ralph Peters’s ‘Blood Borders’
      by Barin Kayaoglu

      Wednesday , 19 July 2006

      Prominent novelist and author U.S. Army Lt. Col. Ralph Peters (Ret.) has recently published a controversial op-ed in the Armed Forces Journal titled “Blood Borders: How a Better Middle East Would Look.”1 The piece caused a controversy among Turkish intellectual circles to the point of re-examining the fundamentals of Turkish-American relations and America’s motives in the region. The implications of this controversy for the Middle East in general, and U.S.-Turkish relations in particular, must be analyzed more closely.

      To start off with the piece itself, Peters states that “international borders are never completely just.” The degree of injustice borders inflict upon those who live there, he continues, makes the difference between “freedom and oppression,” “tolerance and atrocity,” “the rule of law and terrorism,” and “peace and war.” Without expressly putting it, Peters seems to be telling the U.S. government that whatever it does or does not do, the borders of the Middle East are poised to change; Washington should act on this and take advantage of the situation.

      Peters advocates a re-adjustment of national borders and comes up with a list that spares no punches: A separate Sunni Iraq, a Shia Arab state (made up of southern Iraq, Iranian Khuzestan, and eastern Saudi Arabia), secession of Iranian Azerbaijan and its merger with the Republic of Azerbaijan, creation of “Greater Lebanon” from Syria’s Mediterranean littoral, Armenia (finally) taking Mt. Ararat, uniting Farsi-speaking parts of Afghanistan with Iran, the disintegration of Pakistan, and last but not least, a Free Kurdistan (with territory from Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Turkey). The panacea does not touch on the critical Israeli-Palestinian conflict because, in Peters’s words, it is “too intractable.”

      What was truly remarkable about “Blood Borders” was its reception by Turkish intellectuals. Last week, veteran Turkish diplomat Gündüz Aktan dedicated his entire column on Radikal to the Peters essay. Calling it “unbelievable,” Ambassador Aktan found it incredulous for a retired American serviceman to advocate such a crude and impracticable idea.2 According to another Radikal columnist, Mehmet Ali Kışlalı, who enjoys an analytical outlook with Turkey’s military establishment, the article was part of Washington’s “carrot-stick” policy toward Ankara. With the July 5 declaration of “Strategic Vision and Structured Dialogue” by the United States and Turkey, the Bush administration was extending a “carrot.” Peters’s work, according to Kışlalı, was the “stick.”3

      That two very respectable Turkish observers have taken issue with Peters needs scrutiny. Critical thinking is not to make judgments forthwith, but first to question the matter at hand. It is necessary to further scrutinize the meaning of “Blood Borders.”

      The worth of an idea is not really measured by its originality, but by its compatibility with reality. In order to realize the above-mentioned borders, the United States would have to expend so much G.I. blood that it would make the current American casualties in Iraq look like a pleasantry. It is highly improbable, to say the least, for the disgruntled American public opinion to give the Bush administration such a luxury after Iraq.

      The United States, precisely because of the Iraq quagmire, is neither in a condition to dictate terms in the region nor around the world. The insurgency in Iraq would not be defeated and the Palestine-Israel question seems anything but on a “road map.” Meanwhile, North Korea, Iran, and Venezuela conspicuously defy “Pax Americana” and easily get away with it.

      Specifically, and this relates to the reason why Turkey must not be too frightened with the “Free Kurdistan” scenario, is that the Kurds, be they Iranian, Iraqi, Syrian, or Turkish, are not stupid. They know the dire consequences of being perceived as “a second Israel” in the Middle East. A state that is formed under the auspices of “the imperialist West” will never have an easy time in the region after its sponsor leaves. This is the reason why the Kurds are only going to rely so much on the Americans. The leader of the autonomous Kurdish region, Masoud Barzani, knows this better than anybody. It was his father, Mustafa, who was abandoned by the United States in the 1970s as a quid pro quo for Washington to thaw its relations with the Baathist regime.

      This point ties to Peters’s lack of knowledge on Turkey’s Kurds. While the “new map” happily gives an enclave to “Free Kurdistan” on the Black Sea coast, had Peters been informed about Kurdish demographics in Turkey, the proper provinces would be Adana and Mersin on the Mediterranean, where they are in a majority, and not the Black Sea, where they hardly reside.

      Speaking of demographics and politics, it is apt to note that almost half of Turkish Kurds live outside “Free Kurdistan” and are unlikely to return if that country ever came about. As for their voting patterns, even though comprising about twenty to twenty-five percent of Turkey’s 70 million population, Turkish Kurds hardly vote for Kurdish parties, as evinced by these parties’ poor electoral performance.

      Economically, Turkey’s Kurds do fairly well. The Ceylan and Toprak corporations, owned and run by Kurds, have been around for so long that nobody recognizes them as distinctly “Kurdish;” they simply do not make news for that. People of Kurdish origin fill the ranks of Turkey’s nascent middle class.

      One last point about Kurds, who evoke Peters’s sympathy because they “have endured decades of violent military oppression and a decades-long demotion to ‘mountain Turks’ in an effort to eradicate their identity.” That most Kurds have migrated to western Turkey proves quite the opposite: People always run in the opposite direction when they are oppressed. During the 1990s, Turkey’s Kurds did not flee to Iraq, Iran, or Syria. Instead, they chose Istanbul, Ankara, Izmir, Adana, Mersin, and Bursa as their new homes.

      Ralph Peters has always stood out as a very smart and original analyst; he has said things as he saw them and said what others would not say. Outspokenness is a virtue that is in dire need these days. Unfortunately, Peters has not done a very convincing job with “Blood Borders.”

      Some of Peters’s previous prophecies have already been invalidated. Three years ago, after the fall of Baghdad and President Bush’s announcement that “major combat operations in Iraq have ended,” Peters published “Au Revoir Marianne…Auf Wiedersehen, Lili Marleen: The End of America’s European Romance” at the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung.4 In that article, Peters pronounced the death of Europe’s strategic significance (at least that of “Old Europe”) for the United States. In just three years, with the United States relying on the P5+1 initiative over the nuclear crisis with Iran and with increasing U.S. support for Turkey before and during every major EU-Turkey summit, it is safe to say that this prediction has been proven inaccurate.

      Recently, Peters refuted the claims that there was a civil war brewing in Iraq, after the bombing of the al-Askari mosque in Samarra last February. His New York Post op-ed of March 5, 2006 was titled as a reference to a teenage comedy of a similar name (Dude, Where’s My Car).5 “I’m looking for the civil war,” Peters had said, “and I just can’t find it.” In the past four months, many Iraqis have not been that fortunate.

      If the new American grand strategy of bringing peace and prosperity to the Middle East through democratization has any hope of success, the answer is not cropping up new states, but working with the ones at hand. Only a unified/federal Iraq can bring true peace to the Iraqi people, including the Kurds. A “Free Kurdistan” would never be free – it would be choked upon birth, exacerbating region-wide strife.

      Only a peaceful, democratic, and secular Turkey can legitimize U.S. policies in the region. For if neutrals and adversaries regard U.S. policies as damaging to an ally like Turkey, the United States will never be able to gain their confidence.

      To paraphrase Abraham Lincoln, a well-functioning Turkish-American partnership may be the world’s “last best hope.” It is critical for Turks and Americans to realize this sooner rather than later.

    15. For the sake of the world and humanity what about giving;
      – Alaska back to Russia,
      – Texas ,NewMexico ,California, Arizona, Louisiana states back to Mexico.
      – Missisipi, Alabama,Georgia, South and Norht Carolina, Kentucy, Tennessee, Virginia to Afro-Americans for THE UNITED STATES OF FREE AFROISTAN
      – Washington,Montana, Dakota, Minesota, Wisconsin Michigan, Indiana, Illinois,Missouri, Arkansas,Oklahama, Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa, Colorado, Utah, Nevada, Wyoming, Idaho, Oregon for THE UNITED STATES OF REAL AMERICAN INDIANS who were living on this lands from the first day of human race on earth.
      – And the rest for THE USA

      Also limit the amount of the THE USA citizens natural recourse’s crazy consuming habit (This will also help them to be fit, healty and to have a normal human body shape like the rest of the world.)

      I think this is the main solution of World Peace.

      Dear friends, feel free to comment !

    16. Sadettin,

      Wisconsinites and Michiganites are not killing each other over this, nor are they going else to France or Quebec blowing up and beheading people. Do you not see the difference? Canada and the US have a long mostly demilitarized boarder. You see no difference between that and the situation in the mildest and in the land touched by arab/Islamic civilization?

      The Mexicans coming over for the most part want to share in the American dream. The security is largely concerned with Muslim terrorist who may try to infiltrate to the US to do their evil deeds.

      Most of the borders you mentioned were settled with agreements between those states generally with money/compensation flowing to one side of the other.

      Save me the socialistic rhetoric on resources. When rest of the world industrializes and modernizes it will use more resources. Don’t forget to mention the production % (not jus the input %).

      As long as people calling themselves Muslims try to impose fantasy ideology Islam / Sharia / tyranny on the rest of the world (the main cause of misery and wasted human potential in the Arab/Islamic world) the civilized world and the world Islam will be in opposition.

      People calling themselves Muslims need to embrace reason/ tolerance / modernity and discard tyranny / sharia / medivialiness /fantasy-thinking (I don’t think you are saying Islam = tyranny / sharia / medivialiness / fantasy-thinking, are you?). The modern world awaits. Come on in, the water is fine.

      Of course your comment (which you have made at least one other site word for word) is not meant to be a serious contribution to a discussion. It is meant to make self-loathing westerners back-off by feeding into their own fantasies and guilt feelings. You certainly came to the wrong blog for that.

      Purp

    17. Muneeb Hashmi,

      >>Mr. Purpleslog and all other westeners who think they are our masters!!!

      Ah, the Islamic fantasy of victimization makes its way to comment section of PurpleSlog. Welcome Muneeb.

      >>We the Muslims are first of all humans (just to let you know),

      More victimization, Muneeb? Who is suggesting you are not? You came to the wrong blog for pity.

      Of course, it is interesting that you are echoing words and phrases. that American Leftists have been using recently.

      >>next according to the democratic rules of the west, we have the rights to chose our >>path. Who are you to show us the right way or the wrong way?

      Are you saying there is nothing you can learn from the west? The west has certainly experimented with different forms of government and society. For the most part the west has settled on the Democratic form of government.

      >>Now in reply to your first para:
      >>Those people you think are extremist were made extremist by your so called justified >>doings.

      This is your third plea of Muslim victimhood Muneeb. You are starting to bore me.

      >>I think you have forgot the long lasting issues of Plaestine-Israel, Kashmir, Chechniya,
      >>etc. Now you are making a new conflict by creating a new map and creating more
      >> extremists(according to you, but we say they are freedom fighters). I think you and
      >> your “THINK TANKS” have already made enough havoc.

      I find it interesting that every hotspot of violence in the world (except Sri Lanka) has Muslims at the center of it.

      >>
      Now for the next para.
      You say you are enlightened, everyday a new story is created which ultimately goes against Muslims, e.g. just a few days ago a Muslim was sent off the plane just because he was praying. Now how do you call this “Enlightenment”?
      The only thing that you have acheived for now is the acheivement in science, and this thing in wrong hands creates the just the situation we are in now.
      >>

      The advanced science and technology are result of the enlightment’s return of human capcicity and human capital. They are result of the changes in the thinking in worth of humans, the power of reason, the relationship of state/religion/citizen and many other things.

      I am not impressed or shamed by folks who try to nitpick things like the plane incident you allude to. With out the non-trivial actions of those who call themselves Muslims and continue to attack and threaten to attack the west and other non-Arab/Islamic nations, incidents like that would not happen. I see no moral equivalence.

      >>
      The only thing that could lead us to prosperity is Islam, I have read that you have just bought a new Quran, I hope that you read it with open heart.
      >>

      Well will read it with an open mind when I get to it.

      >>
      Now let me quote the words of Wikipedia:

      This shows that facism as you say is the creation of your “enlightened” culture.
      >>

      Yep it was. The west fought a war to stop it too, with the democratic form of the nation-state coming out on top. Fascism has been discarded in the west. It should be discarded in the rest of the world too.

      >>
      The only thing that keeps us away from not creating an ideal world are the leaders that you have planted in our countries.
      >
      If only a little chance is provided to the people they would go for the Shariah Rule, this can be proved by the 2001 Elections in Pakistan(where 2 provinces have the so called jihadis’ government), Iranian Presidential elections(where hardline president Mehmood Ahmedinezad won against liberal Hashmi Rafsanjani), Palestianian Elections(Where hardline government of hamas was formed against the liberal Fatah) and last but not the least the Lebanon Elections where Hizbullah won with great majority(and have proved their worth by keeping the faith of Lebanonese people and defeating Israel).
      I hope this clears up your mind against Islam and Muslims.

    18. Why can’t I see my post?

    19. To Purpleslog,

      I just wanted to show, how it is stupid and foolish to take a world map
      and sit down and try to draw new borders as Ralph Peters did.

      Also it is very funny for me to see that somebody took it serious
      and try to explain the details of of USA’s borders.
      Don’t worry, there is no occupation on USA and I don’t think
      there might be in visible future.

      (Also can you please tell the Republicans not to invade my country
      and try to kill me, I swear I don’t have a secret plan for USA
      and I don’t have mass destruction weapons, the only weapon I have is
      my Swiss Army Pocketknife and I am ready to give it to you.)

      You say;
      “Save me the socialistic rhetoric on resources.
      When rest of the world industrializes and modernizes
      it will use more resources. Don’t forget to mention
      the production % (not jus the input %).”

      http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922041.html

      Here it says that USA consumes 20.5% of Oil in the world.
      Hmm, I don’t think that you are producing 20.5% of all goods in the world.
      If yes, it is very strange how 99% of you can be obese with this much hard working.

      Besides I don’t know what is your problem with Islam or Muslims?
      I did not tell anything about Islam, Christianity or Judaism.
      I don’t know if you are aware but after 1789,
      The French Revolution there is something else “Nations”.
      Classifing people with their religions is a middle-age tradition.

      I just wanted to explain that Peters’ map is piece of crap.
      Bush Administration’s middle east plan is pathatic
      and will not solve anything.It is just serving the oil fields
      to his Sponsor Oil Companies.

      But as I understand you are claiming that Islam blief makes people
      to kill someone (sometimes non-muslims, mostly each other).
      I think what you claim is a very sick idea and totaly nonsense.

      Accepting your idea also, lets us to accept that,
      thanks to the Christianity, western civilization became
      enlighted and developed.
      But the history says the opposite, as much as the westerners
      locked the christian blief inside the churchs and took positive science
      as the new guide, the enlightment came. If you look at south, central america,
      christian african countries they are very religios christians
      but they are not very enlighted, are they?

      Also if you make a statistic and find the number of people killed per year
      by the countries ruled by people who has Islam belief and Christian belief,
      and other beliefs seperately. I do not think that Islam will be nr.1.

      In fact all religions tell people, good things. Also Islam does the same.
      If you read you’ll see.
      The problem in middle-east is not a religion problem it is the exploitation fight
      of OIL RESOURSES by the big imperialist countries.And it is that much easy.
      (The USA is the biggest, don’t forget 20.5% rate)

      For not seeing this you have to be blind or republican or the ex-nazi pope benedictus.

      Stay cool, and feel free to comment 🙂

    20. http://www.hemenpaylas.com/download/1773486/middleeast.jpg.html

      What about the map above. Instead of Balkanization of the region with microstates controlled by tyrans lets make a bigger one, which is secular, democratic from the year 1923 and will be a member of EU soon.

    21. Sadettin…I do not see a map at the link you gave. Could you give an alternate link or email me the map graphic? Thanks.

    22. And create not disorder in the earth
      __________________________________
      Ralph Peter is known novelist with his thrilling stories depicting futuristic like scenarios. With a military back ground at hand he is also fond of having his say in the global contemporary issues like ‘terrorism’ and issue of third world ‘failed states’ etc. His recent article of ‘Blood Borders’ is another recount on the same lines.

      He may be in knowledge of it that blood promotes race and feud. Most bloody battles in the World have been fought on the bases of the race and religion. For past two centuries the major upheavals in the lives of people were the out come of such wars. Lot of blood spilled. Million of people were displaced and forced to fled, to escape the onslaught of oppressors. They migrated and took shelters in totally different communities in far off lands. Many countries were merged and submerged and new blocks were created.

      Blood feuds are the most dangerous episodes of World history and reverting back to the phenomenon of blood line borders may be most devastating experience.

      Anyhow, the earlier spillage of blood, and amount of atrocities committed over a long period of time and on a vast scales in many, many lands, also prove to be a blessing in disguise. The people belonging to different cultures migrated to these new environments were forced to adjust themselves and settle in these new lands. It took many a decades and new multicultural societies emerged. Hence after, there has always been generally an atmosphere of Peace and plenty. World seems to be in order and a peaceful course was set.

      Multicultural societies may be the answer to World peace, where peace and harmony remains always…in sight;

      But this had not yet travelled long down the road that the sole super power of this world; US, owing to her rapacious greed, of availing hegemony in the Middle East, very tactfully induced nihilism. In order to bring Middle Eastern lands, rich in economic resources into American fold, the Neocons policy of fallacy and deception tended US to create a web of deceit in this area to grab the lands by force. This has brought anarchy and disturbed the peace of this part of the world. Life of millions of people is devastated and disorder has brought an acute suffering to the innocent and the destitute people.

      Koran describes this disorder as; as in chapter 7:57(Al-A ‘raf).”And create not disorder in the earth after it has been set in order, and call upon Him in fear and in hope. Surely, the mercy of Allah is nigh unto those who do good.”

      And… in 26:184. (Al-Shu ra).”And diminish not unto people their things, nor go about the earth, creating disorder;”

      Koran further says in chapter 2:12. (Al baqarah). “And when it is said to them, ‘Create not disorder in the earth,’ they say, ‘We are only promoters of peace”.

      But there has been the fragility and vulnerability of countries like Pakistan that under the cir***stances they are compelled to cooperate with the present day sole oppressor…USA.

      Any how this is the way of the people of the East that for their honour they are found ready to lay their lives. They live by their word and feel comfortable to work in close liaison with friends. Pakistan is a country of great people. Since early 80s Pakistan considered US as big brother, and as a matter of honour, decided to work with US as an ally on global issues. US could not have a better ally than Pakistan in the area.

      Pakistan was assigned the task to end the Soviet Union occupation and evict Soviet from Afghanistan. Pakistan mobilized its entire country for the task, and chalked out a befitting doctrine to build up a unique task force. This force was ready to fight and very honourably lay their lives for the given task. With a short period of time, Pakistan not only made it possible but also gave such a sever blow to Soviet Union, that World was not only able to see this super power retreating from Afghanistan, bleeding… but also witnessed that before her once mighty armies were able to reach back Moscow, her mighty Empire had already collapsed.

      Thus Pakistan made it possible, for US to become the lone super power of the world.

      World history tells us that such resilient and dedicated forces, found capable of defeating even the invincible mighty powers may not be betrayed or abandoned. But US did indulge in such folly. US abandoned these forces and left them high and dry. Betrayal carries a price and one committing it, has to pay.(US is paying through her nose in war theaters of Iraq and Afghanistan.)

      Pakistan was not yet ready to demobilized these forces, This was an enormous task to rehabilitate and reintegrate them back into their civilian social setup. US again called upon Pakistan to come forward to relieve her of her self inflicted pains of 9/11. This time; to come up, to commit an action like suicide!… To eliminate their own kith and kin; the very forces, that once made US a super power.

      One should not under estimate the resilience and pliability of Pakistan that it was again able to shore up their courage and effectively become the front line nation to fight the new global war on terror. For last many years this is being done very successfully. It only takes a Pakistani courage to do this!

      US need to treat Pakistan with respect and grace. Every one needs space to breath but Pakistan is again being left to face, a waves of discrimination in the world. Looks like the civility, fairness, truth and wisdom has left US for good and gone to Pleiades. A sense of acute arrogance from US is being experienced. Pakistan can bear US as a friend but not as master.
      Pakistan deserves a ‘very well done’ for the job they performed so extra ordinarily.

      Pakistan is considered by all the Muslims to be the fortress of Islam. Islam is very well a filtered and refined product of God Almighty bestowed to Muslims for its delivery as ‘blessing for the mankind’ for the peace and harmony in the World. It has come to stay. If its God’s design, it will prevail and excel above all the previous denominations. Muslim may be resource less (at present), but in God, their Lord that they trust, is not resource less.

      Slanderous messages and wishful thinking of people like Ralph Peters may no deter!
      ————————————
      Love for all, Hatred for none
      ________________________________________

    23. Al baqarah, translation by Muhammad Asad

      2:10 In their hearts is disease, and so God lets their disease increase; and grievous suffering awaits them because of their persistent lying.

      2:11 And when they are told, “Do not spread corruption on earth,” they answer, “We are but improving things!”

      2:12 Oh, verily, it is they, they who are spreading corruption but they perceive it not?

      2:13 And when they are told, “Believe as other people believe,” they answer, “Shall we believe as the weak-minded believe?” Oh, verily, it is they, they who are weak-minded -but they know it not!

    24. Wishing Middle East a better Future

      Nectar and fragrant delights are the divinely blessings, ordained by Almighty God to the bees to receive a feast of regale and delicacy from the flowers. Bees gets this as a pleasant reward while serving the divinely mechanism of nature; of transferring the pollen of flowers to the stigma. Bees may not be aware of it that God almighty, the creator has so well designed and equipped them to serve the purpose of productivity as a regnant of ecosystem on our adorable planet…Earth. Bees enjoy the nectarous drink and ambrosial feed. They spend their pleasant time in the fragrant surroundings while performing the delicate job of eco in nature. This is a guaranteed reward of nature as long the cause is served and bees do not destroy the synthesis, beauty, colour and sweet smells of flowers.

      On the other hand, Locust or green fly or caterpillars squander and waste the flagrant flowers by eating up and destroying them. Their greed and act of rampage earns them only vexation and nectar turned into gall. These assailants always leave their bad smell behind. The pleasure, the sweetness and tastes of nectarous, ambrosial feast and basking in the perfumy surroundings are little known to them.

      Like wise, few centuries back when most of the world was primitive; European nations were rich in industrial knowledge, and were equipped with skills and technology. In quest of markets to sell their product they made great voyages.
      Most of their destinations were in far off, uncivilised, primitive world. While selling the product they also transferred some user’s knowledge and know how to the buyers. By doing this they were serving the cause of God to spread the knowledge and disseminate the light to the darker world.

      In return they use to come back home loaded with riches and merchandise of far off lands. These riches were the pleasant rewards like the nectar bestowed to bees for carrying out their angelic duties.

      In the past this unspoken covenant of serving the cause by western nations was seen credible. In the process the recipients learned and gain knowledge and voyagers amassed mountain of wealth and riches. Back home, general living in Europe was transformed and once thatched roof buildings were seen turned into lofty high rising…dwellings.

      Depending upon the influence established in their trading domains, different European countries started exploiting the host countries and wade their ways to settle there in on permanent basis. New plans were formulated to conquer the world and bring the lucrative lands in their folds as well as to pillage the spoils and amass wealth. Various methods were tried to subjugate and emasculate the local chieftain and natives. With the increase in the greed and race to control and grab the land; local chieftains and tribes were very tactfully pitched against each other and famous technique of ‘divide and rule’ was the order of the day. Most of the countries of South America, Middle East, Africa, Indian subcontinent and Far East started becoming colonies of foreign powers. Thus a colonial era came into existence.

      The new settlers brought in their own administrative set up and enforced their own rules to gain administrative control. Local languages learning increased and slowly the institutions for education, and centres for establishment of law and order started taking place. Roads and communications improved. Locals were also engaged in administrative set ups. The once wild countries now, started getting into orderly shape, with a western touch. This was befitting and was going well in a way. Although all the ‘going out’ from such countries in the form of wealth, riches and merchandise etc were much more than what was being received in; in the form of improving of system in the countries, their roads, communication and state of administrative order.

      God has created a balance world and loves fairness in the business of give and take by his people. The Koran, (the latest book of instruction of God) on the subject of balance and justice, says:
      Ch: 57 (Al Hadid) v 26
      “Verily, We sent Our Messengers with manifest Signs and sent down with them the Book and the Balance that people may act with justice;…Surely, Allah is Powerful, Mighty”.

      As the time passed, in order to extend the control and to avail full domination of colonies, many other methods were also adopted. To coerce the natives to adopt a western way of life, the tool of Christianity; the religion of the subjugating western powers, was also brought in and was vastly used. It worked successfully and conversion to Christianity by the western Christian priests at a massive scale is seen is on records in such colonies. With the help of Christianity a full domination was achieved in all the colonies; from American continent, to Africa, Indian subcontinents and to the Far East. The famous African shibboleth fits the situation; ‘they gave us the Christianity but took away our piece of land’,

      This was followed by a full occupation, by using the armed forces. Military cantonments, strong built government buildings, forts and other strong holds were built. Although the entire Middle East was also in occupation but because of presence of the Muslims Holy cities of Mecca and Medina and some old strong holds of Ottoman Empire were still live and effective in Iraq Syria and Turkey; there was a limited conversion to Christianity in Middle East.

      This phase is stretched on a long period of time. The colonial western powers like England, France, Spain and smaller countries like Portugal and Nether land also held their colonies operated on full scale and extracted all the riches and wealth of these colonies; depriving the native of their rights till such time that these were fully squeezed and depleted.

      Enough is enough and God, could not see their hold no further. Before it was stretched too far; God almighty gave a stir; right here in Europe; a man like Hitler came into action. He stirred and toppled the colonial bases at home and this eruption turned into WWII. Resultant; there were untold Atrocities committed and millions of people including colonial forces perished. Losses were so huge that it forced all the European colonial powers to pack up from their colonies. More than forty enslaved countries were set free. One wonders who could be crowned as victorious or leader in this operation of freedom and salvation?

      After WWII, there came a run of cold period: then came a fall of Soviet Empire. Soviet Union packed up and retreated from Afghanistan. The vibrant proxies like Pakistan were in play and in full action to push forward the new American agenda. Soviet were also forced to say good by to her various coerced states of her former Empire and they were released of Soviet Shackles.

      After the fall of Soviet Union and having the cold war phase also ended, World has ended up in the lap of the lone super power–United States. United States supremacy seems to be bent to take the world for a big ride of –US heavens called ‘New American Century’. This is era of ‘advance technology and information and the flood gates of information are open. Common man is in access of it. The abundance of all sorts of information demands sifting of the clues to find the truth. To control and block the flow of true information or spread misinformation; this has given a birth to the new think tanks of Neocons to devise their policy of ‘Fallacy and Deception’. This policy is very keenly being revered by United States and her other allies’.

      In order to avail the hegemony in the world and to establish US Empire, a phoney war; in the name of ‘Global war on terror’ is on. To push forward the agenda of American Empire and bring all the lands; rich in world economic resources into American fold; a huge number of armed forces are in operation, in Middle Eastern theatre. We live fully enslaved to the well stretched clutches of media and find ourselves in a full grip of it. To keep the public opinion as favourable and to cover up the atrocities being committed at abroad by our armed forces; new rules of exception on ‘self devised morality base’ are frequently carved. Various proviso to avail a favourable public opinion; are skilfully formulated and modified on daily bases. This is coercing us to live a life hung between terror and death, while leaving us with no clues to sift for the truth or source of information fed to us.

      There seems to be now only two super powers, in operation in the world; ‘United States’ and ‘public opinion’. Former is at war with the other but; it is facing lots of difficulties to win over to keep the public opinion in Neocons camps.

      US forces in the face of resistance and resilience put up by local decedent groups are also facing a scenario of defeat in Iraqi and Afghanistan theatre. Signs are very much visible.
      To create an eruption in the ranks and files of decedents pitched against US; Ralph Peters a Neocons member has very conveniently floated an idea of carving the ‘Blood borders’ in Middle East. This may be against the well seated old British colonial rules of division of local communities carved after WWII. But it has the potential to dustup an upheaval in Middle East for times to come.

      Wishing Middle East a better future may seem to be a far cry; till some times that God also finds it as; enough is enough and some devoted man appears in Americas and stirs the home base; and world is depolarised.
      The People like Robert Murray are already predicting ‘the decline and fall of US Empire’.
      —————————
      Love for all, Hatred for None

    25. To Purpleslog (if he’s still there), your governments do not want democracy in Asia or Latin America, they want cheap labor for their corporations. And btw these people were not killing each other up on ethnic basis, just look up some history of the coups CIA initiated in dozens of countries just so they don’t get strong enough to become a challenge to the hegemony of the West, just look this stuff up:

      American wars, coups, assassinations & sabotage have killed millions of innocent people around the world! Iran 1953, Guatemala 1954, Iraq 1963 and 1968 (installed Saddam), Cuba 1961, Vietnam Laos 1962, Indonesia 1965 that installed Soeharto, Bolivia 1967, Cambodia 1970, Chile 1973, Afghanistan 1979, Nicaragua 1981, Honduras Panama 1989, Venezuela 2002. These are not “conspiracy theories”, google up these keywords, the US Government calls them “covert operations” instead of “war crimes”!

      Americans have killed millions of innocent people, still continuing in Afghanistan and Iraq, and the Americans don’t know the answer to “why they hate us”? Spreading the message of peace and liberty by carpet-bombing, by wiping out whole towns? Why wouldn’t the victims of such brutality cry “Death to America!”

    26. Waqas…your leftists propaganda bores me and is not worth a response.

    27. purpleslog — have you read Olivier Roy? I can’t help but notice how the responses you’ve got for this post echo his thoughts on the secularisation of Islam. Everyone sounds like a leftist! Just like Europe circa 1970s …

    28. I know not of Oliver Roy. Can you recommend something?

    29. The book to get is “Globalised Islam” (recommended by Tom Barnett, Martin Kramer and Dave Kilcullen). Roy is probably the most knowledgable writer on Islamism today. There is a recent CFR interview featuring Vali Nasr (author of “The Shia Revival” — also highly recommended) on “The future of radical Islam in Europe”, that serves as a good introduction to his thought:

      http://www.cfr.org/publication/14739/future_of_radical_islam_in_europe_video.html?breadcrumb=%2Fbios%2F11622%2Fvali_r_nasr

    30. Thanks. I will add these to my to-read list.

    31. This all bull shit, as far as I am alive, it not possilbe for any one on earth to break Pakistan. This is land taken in the name of Allah and Islam. this idea actuly is what some people want to be done but NO TO IDEA

    32. Fascinating discussion! I suspect Peters was trying to think out of the box in considering ways of dealing with the Middle East conflicts, same as TE Lawrence tried to do in l9l8. TEL’s map was more general but the purpose was the same. I’ve been in the Middle East, Africa and Central Asia a bit that past few years and do believe, with goodwill on the part of the principals, there can be a solution. The biggest problem, as Peters indicates, is Israel, which has be to accepted as part of the ME community but also has to accept its neighbors’ legitimate demands. Would be interested in some of the Arab’ posters suggested approaches.

    33. I don’t think was suggesting that the US|West should (or could) unilaterally re-draw the borders of the Mideast. I think he was suggesting that the borders that were drawn, were drawn so poorly, that much of the existing conflict is caused or worsened by these bad borders.

      Many of the Mideastern commenters on my post may have missed this do to English not being a first language. Some most likely just didn’t read the article at all.

    34. hehe and why would herat go to iran? pashtons and tajiks are same race but persians are different ,we are same bactrians. and baloch should be added to afg too. that would be our futur map. btw in paki case thats perfect.

    35. AP…I don’t understand anything you have written.

    36. Ralph Peter is an idiot person..

    37. If the definition of Terrorism is to spread TERROR then Ralph Peter is one of them.. He has spreaded terror

    38. HI Arsalan,

      Your definition is completely wrong.

      Terrorism is violence committed against non-combatants in support of a political cause.

      Generally, those doing the terrorism hope to provoke a reaction from the target of the violence.

      It is the hope of those committing the act of initial terrorism, that the general reaction to reaction of the initial terrorism will be negative toward the target of the initial terrorism action.

      The hope of the terrorist here is to build or increase support of whatever political position they have and to decrease support for their opponent (the initial target).

    39. God make it soon..

    40. Faisal Aryan…please elaborate.

    41. it is nessecary to redraw the borders betwenthe people1st improve the economical and caltural level 2nd expert communication tecnlolgey to the thered word ,3 seperate human rights and democratics culture in mmeadle east

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