Found on Wikipedia: “The Dulles Plan”

From Wikipedia:

Since the early 1990s, anti-Western media in Russia have referred to the so-called Dulles plan (Russian: план Даллеса). It is the text (in Russian) of a secret plan to destroy the USSR through the ideological manipulation of the Soviet population and the corruption of its morals. The source of this text is unknown. It is reported to have been his speech to the US Congress made in 1945 or a passage from his book published in 1945 or 1953. There are no known speeches or writings of Dulles that contain this plan. Interestingly, this text almost literally coincides with the words spoken by a character in The Eternal Call (Russian: Вечный зов), a novel by Anatoly Ivanov published in 1971-1976.

I was unable to find any other web references to this via google, and I am too lazy to check any further.

So, is this just an example of Russian Paranoia? Denial by aging-Reds and/or retro-Reds?

Or is it from ripples (or shadows cast) of a long forgotten and well concealed proto-5GW?

[Cross Posted to Dreaming 5GW]

31 Responses

  1. “Dulles’ plan” is a forgery by Russian Propaganda machine. Interesting, many Russian believe it exists.

    Based on so called “Dulles’ plan” “facts” Russian TV channel RENTV in April 2008 created and aired in in the prime-time 50 minute TV “documentary” of the title “USSR: Ordered to Destoy” (Russian – “СССР – приказано уничтожить”.

    Dulles’ plan became a tool of anti-American propaganda that is on the rise in Russia.

  2. I’m from Russia.

    You just make a great mistake talking about “Russian Paranoia”. I suggest Dulles’ Plan doesn’t exist on paper, but what is happening in Russia is a direct implementation of this “imaginary” plan.

    And don’t you see in USA happens the same? There were two great states in the world. USSR was destroyed, now USA is being destroyed. Coca-cola, McDonalds, dull movies, etc. are spreading all over the world and corrupt people.

    USSR was showed to capitalistic world as an absolute evil. Now image of USA in the rest of the world is being created in the same manner.

    In Russia most people think USA is evil, just as in USA people thought USSR was shit

    in this post i can’t explain you everything, moreover i don’t like writing

  3. Sasha,

    First thatnk you for commenting and writing in English. It is much appreciated.

    “…just as in USA people thought USSR was shit…”

    Well we thought the system was. It was wasting away the potential of most Russians. Most of us where happy for the Russian and the opportunity they had when the CP lost power. It seems that the opportunity has been wasted and Russian are turning to a oil-fueled authoritarian regime again.

    “Now image of USA in the rest of the world is being created in the same manner.”

    Who do you think might be behind this? Or is it a natural reaction of peoples against powerful states?

  4. purpleslog!

    As I said I never write in blogs (or what is it) but this subject is somewhat interesting to me.
    So I’ll try to explain what I know (which might be wrong)

    “Who do you think might be behind this? Or is it a natural reaction of peoples against powerful states?”

    As far as I know there is a group of people standing behind this (probably those are several the most rich clans of the world, who control banking system). And they just use “natural reaction of people” against unwanted states. They also might be responsible for several events (such as September,11 which is commonly believed to be conspiracy of intelligence, your government, or just Osama bin Laden act, etc.) and it can be clearly explained

    The main idea of them is well-known Roman formula: “divide and rule”.
    Let’s call these people “global mafia”.

    Imagine we’re that global mafia. We see: there are two great states (USSR and USA) and they are out of our control (but they have many resources and potentials). We don’t like such a situation and first we create negative image of USSR in the world and successively destroy this state. Since the rest of the world believe USSR to be evil no one regret about its failing. Now the same is happening to USA.

    Let’s see: USA can influence other world if dollar is strong. But recently they created euro, which is now becoming stronger. (35 rub = 1 euro; 23 rub = 1$, rub is russian currency, I hope you know).
    The War in Iraq and other USA’s problems with Islamic world make image of your country worse, and it’s just made by hands of Bush and other politicians who don’t understand they are instruments in skillful hands.

    Really, i can and want to say more but it’s a topic of long discussion (or maybe this site is actually intended for these discussions?)

    My reasoning might look not clear (or “might not look clear” :)) because it’s only a few facts of the whole idea.
    I listened to the series of lectures about what in Russian is called “глобальная политика” (direct translation – “global politics”). And also my English may cause problems in understanding what I want to say.

    If you want more maybe I’ll be able to explain in detail.

    As for “Russian are turning to a oil-fueled authoritarian regime again” – we don’t like it themselves (i mean ordinary people). It seems our government try to leave this way, but really it’s a problem

  5. My goodness!! I wrote so much!

  6. In Russia most people think USA is evil, just as in USA people thought USSR was shit

    Not exactly. The CPUSA, Communist Party of USA, thought differently and so did various other organizations and leaders here in the US.

  7. Sasha,

    Thanks for responding.

    “They also might be responsible for several events (such as September,11 which is commonly believed to be conspiracy of intelligence, your government, or just Osama bin Laden act, etc.) and it can be clearly explained”

    This belief is not really common. Most people believing that way in the US are not considered serious. They have an over sized presence on the internet though.

    “Really, i can and want to say more but it’s a topic of long discussion (or maybe this site is actually intended for these discussions?)”

    Yes, this is the a purpose of this site.

    I don’t speak or read Russian so all of my info is second hand.

    “Imagine we’re that global mafia…”

    I see know evidence of an existence of a puppet master global mafia who with the power to bring down the Soviet Union and who is now turned its eye to the USA.

    The Soviet Union was doomed to fail do waste of physical and human capital as long as the United States and the west could keep up containment because a central planned economy can NEVER be as efficient as a free market economy.

    The US was able to put in place a series of institutions and international rule-sets that enabled the containment strategy to run almost on auto-pilot from 1947 until the fall of the Soviet Union.

    The Soviets never had a chance with a central planned economy (Socialism) against “Containment” + “US Economic Power”.

    The possibility of forcing the west with nuclear weapons was effectively deterred by the US Nuclear forces. Any nuclear attack on the US was have meant the atomic destruction of the peoples of the Soviet Union. The US was pretty sure the Soviets would not strike first because down deep we believed (correctly) the Russian loved their children as much as we loved our children.

    No puppet master global mafia is needed to explain any of this.

    • @purpleslog

      “central planned economy can NEVER be as efficient as a free market economy. ”
      Well let’s 1st distinguish between “central” and “planned”. Centrally administered economy might be a problem indeed – there’s no way to centrally rule the entire economy. However panned is not bad at all. After all it is better to have some vision of the future, set some goals and work toward them. But the real problem is a schitzofrenia (pardon my spelling if wrong) of seeing as opposites the planned vs. market economy. Plan is the objective and marked is an instrument to achieve that objective. Therefore I call this schitzofrenia since it’s the same as a contradistinction between the city and the road that leads to it.

      “I see know evidence of an existence of a puppet master global mafia who with the power to bring down the Soviet Union and who is now turned its eye to the USA.” Let’s discuss this.
      1. To my own opinion, it’d indeed play into the hand of the mafia to create such a thinking stereotype that all people that think there’s a “global mafia” or some “global conspiracy” are at least not serious or in the worst case should be patients of a psychiatric institution… And that is what we have now, in’it?
      2. There is (both direct and indirect) evidence of their “wise rule” pretty much everywhere since they’ve been busy for the last 3500 years (some other time about this in particular). But let me give you a hint of such evidence and where to look for it:
      Some time ago, my fellow countryman Mr. Leontiev (maybe Leontyev) who by then became a US citizen received a Nobel prize in economy for his Equation of Interindustrial Balance (the so-called Input-Output Model – let’s call it here IOM for short). You can read about both this model and the event of prize winning in many sources (e.g. Wikipedia). Because I hope that if you want to counter me on this topic – you know what you’re talking about first.
      This equation can be used to derive some seemingly useful coefficients, statistics etc. However, this guy was given the Nobel prize for NOT SOLVING this equation. And here is the catch!
      This equation is a typical matrix equation, widely met in other disciplines too. From my own education (aerospace) I know that such equations can be solved using the so-called “METHOD of DYNAMIC PROGRAMMING”. It is an iterative numerical method widely applied in e.g. engineering. BUT (and a big but!) in order to use it one needs to parametrically form the so-called “OBJECTIVES FUNCTION”. That means that you need to state where you want the solution to go to – what you want to achieve in your economy. However, this deprives “them” (read: globalmafia) of their arbitrary rule. Coz they’d have to somehow mathematically motivate their taxes, their plans etc.
      By the way, the flat tax system (like e.g. here in Russia) creates an inter-industial competition… One thing (which is good) when two (2) or more (>) factories that produce e.g. shoes compete with each other – who makes better and cheaper shoes. But it is totally different when banks start to compete with farmers…
      Now, one can distinguish between Demographically Stipulated Needs (DSN) and Parasitically-Degradational Needs (PDN).
      Examples: DSN – everyone needs to eat, drink, wear clothes, shoes, have a roof, move around etc.
      PDN – drinking, smoking etc.

      The IOM can be solved to maximize satisfaction of DSN and to damp PDN.
      Besides, DSN are predicatable and limited (one cannot eat e.g. 20 kg of meat per day). While PDN are UNpredictable and limitLESS (you never know what a super rich guy will want – a 90m long yacht or a 110m long one, or whether he will want to take a bath with milk or with shapagne).

      I hope that I have herewith enlightened you. I’d really love to tell you much more. And there is much much more!.. But I could spend days typing about these things. If you are interested, add me in Skype (egazoid81) – I would be absolutely happy to give you more information on this complex topic.

  8. The Soviets tried to stop the brain drain and the people going to the West. They couldn’t do that and maintain socialism inside their borders at the same time, while the US outside got richer and better.

    At some point, something was going to give.

    Either the Soviets had to let the borders open, which would really put a number on the KGB and internal police actions, or they had to reform their economy. It seemed that when the Soviets let some slack in the system, Poland and other Soviet satellite states went rebellious.

    http://joshuapundit.blogspot.com/2008/05/das-hillery-in-bunker.html

    Btw, that’s a pretty funny clip you should see, Purple.

    PS.

    Many young people, specifically young blacks in Democrat urban regions (like Cynthia McKinney’s ddistrict) will spout off constantly about 9/11 being engineered by Bush.

  9. The Soviets had an interesting strategy where they would undermine the West from the inside out using non-kinetic psychological and propaganda principles.

    A people that are convinced their system is the worst in the world, won’t fight for it and sure as heck won’t nuke anybody to defend it.

  10. purpleslog!
    You’re right saying “No puppet master global mafia is needed to explain any of this.” But at the same time you’re not right 🙂
    I’ll try to make it more clear later if you don’t mind.

    Still the subject of your first post was Dulles’ Plan.
    I’ll send you on mail English Version of the next document.
    //
    US NSC (National Security Council) directive 20/1 August,18 1948

    Thomas H. Etzold and John Lewis Gaddis, eds.,
    Containment: Documents on American Policy and Strategy,
    1945-1950
    NSC 20/1 (pages 173-203)
    //
    It’s a scanned document. Looks like real. They say it’s real historical document.

    So-called Dulles’ Plan hasn’t any original version except Russian translation. Indeed it’s just a fragment of the novel of Soviet writer Anatoly Ivanov “Vechny Zov” (Анатолий Иванов, “Вечный зов”).

    It’s up to you to decide what is true.

  11. Ym…there is a book written by ex-KGB on the success of the Soviet Active Measures: “The World Was Going Our Way” that is worth reading.

    “A people that are convinced their system is the worst in the world, won’t fight for it and sure as heck won’t nuke anybody to defend it.”

    That is why the 1947ers anti-Soviet 5GW was so important…it continued to run even without full year-to-year support of current leaders and populations.

    Cynthia McKinney is a nut job and an embarrassment to me as a US citizen.

    Sasha: I have the docs and will read them over in the next few days.

  12. To Sasha:

    > I suggest Dulles’ Plan doesn’t exist on paper,

    Yes, it has been proven to be a KGB propaganda tool.

    Kremling polotitians, who work hard to creat an illusion of the Russian Nation” and “Russian Spirit” are bringing all the dirt back to live.

    http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=6AlV_qKbrNs

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Welsh_Dulles

    Here is a source of “Dulles’ Plan”:

    http://lib.aldebaran.ru/author/ivanov_anatolii/ivanov_anatolii_vechnyi_zov_tom_ii/

    After all, nobady’s forcing young Russians to soot dope, to dress llike niggers and to sing dirty songs. That is what they ENJOY doing.

    > In Russia most people think USA is evil

    Boolshit. They are olny some brain washed teenagers in Moscow and few big towns who think – it is cool to hate America. Give them US visas – they will jump the plain, fighting for seats.

  13. Exclusively to JM:
    “They are olny some brain washed teenagers in Moscow and few big towns who think – it is cool to hate America.”

    Also, there are only some “brain washed” bedouins from Iraq, a couple of Yugoslavs, several Vietnamese, some Japanese, a few American Indians think in the same way, huh? And they all ready to take the plain to US!

  14. purpleslog, what about docs I sent you? Is it fake? What’s it all about?

  15. Sasha…sorry I have been working on something else. I will get to the material in a few days and comment upon it. Thanks!

  16. @ jm

    … to dress llike niggers and to sing dirty songs …

    you are sounds as a racist, and that ist, why many poeple on the world do think so about your country!

    RACISM, arrogance, killing other nations (for example indians), no democracy …

  17. […] bloggers are discussing it very actively, however. Some make comparisons to the so-called “Dulles plan” to undermine the Soviet government, while others compare it to the activities of the FSB, to which […]

  18. you are sounds as a racist,

    If that’s true, then all them blacks calling each other niggers would be racists too, neh?

  19. I left vic’s comments up becuase his weirdness speaks for itself.

    Ym: …so, there is no reason to engage Vic. You can’t debate someone like him.

    This does remind that I had docs from Sasha to respond to on the Dulles plan.

  20. I just like asking rhetorical questions. If I have a serious issue, you’ll notice it by the increased word count ; )

  21. Hi! I am from Russia….I have interest at this problem… i read many books and search answer…
    We dont hate USA . Citizen of USA not to account for goverment… as we not to account for ower goverment too, and we understend it. But look around , what are you see …. maybe this is paranoia, mayby “Dulles Plan” – dont care. No good will come of it.
    We lived in powerfull state – USSR. And what we have now??? Russia – ill country …. our children look on TV american porno…. eat popcorn…listen american music…see you cartoons… bubblegum. Serials where show kills, rape and also.
    about ten years needed for destroy power USSR. You think we do it? Maybe …. but …
    You told that “Dulles Plan” is a provocation … you think that our youth interest it ??? No !!! Many people dont care it…. They drink alcohol and look for serials. In you country different?

    • Стас,

      Советую тебе ознакомиться с материалами по Концепции Общественной Безопасности (www.kob.su/petrov). Не надо принимать всё на веру, и не надо делать себя объектом этой информации, но по крайней мере знать что такое существует нужно. Это курс длиной в 28 часов проливающий свет на все эти вопросы, дающий системное представление о том как протекают процессы управления вообще.
      Ну а если ты после этого ещё и пару книжек прочтёшь по этой теме (книги ВП СССР) – цены тебе не будет.
      Лично я смог после этого курса сильно изменить свою жизнь к лучшему – бросил вредные привычки (в т.ч. ругаться матом), понял свою роль в истории человечества, стал на деле, а не декларативно стремиться к праведности. В целом кол-во тупизма в моей жизни значительно уменьшилось, как и кол-во стресса.
      Да, многие источники (типа РПЦ) считают КОБ сектой… Но это тоже самое, что называть библию – сектой… Нет, секта это организация созданная на базе библии. Однако я, как сторонник КОБ, никому денег не плачу, ни на какие собрания не хожу, неоспоримых догм для меня не существует. И этим, кстати, КОБ радикально отличается от религиозных течений и светских -измов – КОБ основывается на диалектике, а -измы носят цитатно-догматический характер.
      Более того КОБ и Достаточно Общая Теория Управления (ДОТУ) учитывают фундаментальные следствия Теоремы Гёделя о неполноте. (Советую ознакомиться в индивидуальном порядке).

      Удачи! (в скайпе я: egazoid81)

      • Rough translation:

        Stas,

        I advise you to learn the material on the Concept of Public Security (www.kob.su / petrov). Do not take everything on faith, and do not make themselves the object of this information, but at least know that there is a need. This is the course length 28 hours, shedding light on all these issues, giving a systematic picture of how flow management processes in general.
        Well, if you then still prochtesh couple of books on the subject (the book VP USSR) – the price you will not.
        Personally, I was able, after this course, greatly change their lives for the better – cast your bad habits (including used obscene language), understand their role in the history of mankind, was, in fact, rather than declaratively seek righteousness. Total count tupizma in my life has been greatly reduced, as the count of stress.
        Yes, many sources (such as the ROC) believe CRR sect … But it is the same as to call the Bible – a sect … No, the sect is an organization founded on the basis of the Bible. But as a supporter of the CRR, the money does not pay anyone, no matter what meeting did not go, indisputable dogma to me does not exist. And this, by the way, Kobe is radically different from the sectarian and secular-isms – CRR is based on the dialectic, and-isms are quotational-dogmatic nature.
        Moreover CRR and sufficiently general theory of management (CEDC) addresses the fundamental consequences of Gödel’s incompleteness theorems. (I advise you read individually).

        Good luck! (in Skype I: egazoid81)

  22. besides Russian people most of all … dont belive in Dulles Plan )))
    Who whant to read some opinions about this …. click here … but article on russion language

    http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D0%B1%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5:%D0%9F%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%BD_%D0%94%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%B0

  23. Here is a simple logic that proves that there’s something wrong with the current inderstanding of democracy:

    Democracy litterally (and I always prefer to use words litterally) means “Peoples rule”. This can be also understood as a phrase “Power of the people”. (In the sense that “power” is “rule”). We also know that “knowledge is power”. So,

    DEMOCRACY = POWER to the PEOPLE;
    KNOWLEDGE = POWER;

    => DEMOCRACY = KNOWLEDGE to the PEOPLE.

    But that implies that education should be good and it should be free (state financed). That people are free to obtain as high education as they want to. It means that there shouldn’t be “elite educational institutions” (so expensive, that non-elite folks like us could never afford to study there). And that implies many other things too.

    This all may seem to be somewhat oversimplified, but I do not pretend to be a genius. This is just a simple idea for the world which is not driven by PROFIT-PROFIT-PROFIT. My personal idea of HAPPYNESS is not profit – I’d love to go to the Moon, build corners of tropical paradise in the far north, explore the depths of the oceans and much more. And I truly think the world should be driven by happiness. HAPPINESS – that’s what should be maximized, and that’s what the economy should work for.
    After all, it’s not money we eat, we do not seat on it, it is not what’s flying into space. Money should serve us, not the opposite.

    • Drive by HAPPINESS = HEDONISM. Alright, I buy it. As all animals, humans are driven by desire to maximize pleasant sensations and minimize unpleasant ones. Hence, the UN Convention againt Torture as the most unpleasant sensation. Certainly, you are right. Money should serve us. not the opposite. My friend, money in fact really serve “us”, but not all of us and it does that to fifferent degrees.Let us not be stupid dogs who bite the stick instead of the man who holds it. We do not serve money, no matter how much it looks like. When it seems so, the matter is that we serve other people who have enough money and it’s those people who use money to make us serve them. A knife always serves a person. When a bad guy hurts you with a knife it does not mean that you ” serve” that knife. Rather that knife serves the knofe-owner and helps him/her to make you serve him/her by means of the knife… As for the Dulles Plan, it is a most stupid and poor-quality concoction of Soviet Agitprop-KGB machine. They were so unsure of their fluency in English that they even were afraid to try cooking up the “original” English version. Have you read it? I’ll tell you: the text is awful and light years behind even Dr.Goebbels propaganda tricks. Mr. Dulles allegedly urges “to instigate the lowliest instincts, perversions, sadism among the Soviet people… to impose false values on this most freedom-loving people… to deprave their youth” etc etc. What “false values” did he refer to? Democracy? Freedom? Human rights? Market economy? Did he really believed those values false, while secretly being a lover of dictatorship, state-planned-economy and Communism a la Stalin?Only a similarly stupid beginning is required like something “We, American imperialists, enemies of the whole progressive mankind, in our hope to enslave all people and ultimately destroy them by A-bombs should…” The text is at total odds with the style of even the most vehement US doctrines of the Cold War era. Those docrrines and strategies urged for “raising the awareness of the Soviet population that it is enslaved by Communists… promote democratic values among the Soviet people… fuel up indignation against Communist distatorship… awaked the human dignity of the Russians” etc. The Plan was written in the best traditions of Medieval Russian ballads, in which the Pagan Tatar Kalin King addressed hostile Russian warriors as follows: “I, the Dog Kalin King, am the strongest in the world and you, Russians, must obey me”. Of course, the hostile leader calling himself “a dog’ sounds absurd, but the tradition required that he should call himself “a dog”, even in his own direct speech. See “The Somng of Roland” where Mauritans also say they are believers in “the Idol of Magomet”. Similarly, Dulles “portrays” himself in his “Plan” a totally repulsive personality calling for certain things to be done that are obviously immoral even in Christian terms. He’s totally evil like Hitler and even worse, a Satan. Understandably, the Plan has never been popularized abroad. It’s strictly for domestic consumption by ignorant Russians of the late 1940s – early 1950s who were totally isolated from any other mass media but Soviet + special operation articles in Western media that has been hastily translated into Russian and promoted within the USSR/Russia as “a proof”.

  24. Народ, подскажите, где на эту ему еще материала возможно нарыть? А то у мя курсач виси-ииит!!!!

  25. If you talk about Russian propaganda, you should first say something about US propaganda. It is known that US secret services are developing these methods for years, so start with your own garden.

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