Purpleslog on Covert Radio – Topic: “5th Generation Warfare – What does it all mean?”

My voice is disguised by a heavy cold, I talk way to fast (as I do in real life when excited), and I didn’t sleep much the night before, but none the less, an interview I gave on 5GW for Brett Winterble’s Covert Radio has been published. The time runs 18m40s.

The interview covered the following:

– How we got to 5GW thinking

– My current 5GW definition

– Mentioned most of the USA’s opponents are 4GWers and briefly discussed Hezbollah vs Israel, and that domestic USA terror groups are 4GWish also.

– I covered the anti-Soviet 5GW (the 1947ers) documented by TDAXP and suggested establishing a similar 5GW (as originally suggested by TDAXP) to shrink the gap (if Thomas Barnett‘s Grand Strategy for the US is to be adopted) to put gap-shrinking on automatic pilot so future USA leaders will have the right tool they need then to make short term decision which will tend to be gap-shrinking.

-I suggested that Sun-Tzu thinking was in harmony with 5GW.

– When asked about a possible 6GW I didn’t think it was likely…I wasn’t sure were the XGW could go for there to be a 6GW.

Some other notes:

– If I was writing out my responses I would have worded things differently

– I am proud I did not swear or use an evil laugh

– I don’t why I kept re-enforcing “institutions” over and over again

– The interview went so quick, I had lots of material left over

– Hope TDAXP is okay with me promoting his stuff

– The host, Brett Winterble, was gracious and easy to work with.

– I had lots of fun

– I hope I get invited again!

I would appreciate feedback on the content and the style.

Update: This is the new link to the podcast.

[Cross-Posted to Dreaming 5GW]

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18 Responses

  1. That was a good interview. Sounds like you had a blast doing it too. Reckon you need a second crack of the whip though – so much to say, so little time!

  2. I did have fun. The minutes flew by, I had so much I wanted to mention but I was only able to scratch the surface.

  3. What happened to the notion of a podcast for Dreaming 5GW?

  4. Steve…it is not dead. I put it on hold because Shloky was going to do something. I haven’t heard more about that so, I guess it should be resurrected.

    What would like as topics for 5 Podcasts of about 30m in length?

  5. To what use are the definitions of 4th and 5th generational warfare concepts to counter-propaganda and counter-terrorism activities?

    On another note, when you look at warfare or human nature as based upon undying principles going all the way back to sticks and fire (such as Boyd’s OODA cycle), it becomes a feasible matter to predict future conflicts.

    Any human faction will attempt to use methods that they think will work for them or have proven to work for them. “Sixth generation warfare” will be based upon which methods and techniques have been discounted or proven to work in this century.

    However, there are certain concepts which are always going to work, like maneuver warfare and getting inside an enemy’s OODA decision loop cycle.

  6. You’ve mentioned various government agencies that could help fight small groups of independent cells of agent provocateurs, CAIR units, ACLU boyos, and what not inside or outside the United States.

    When the generation of warfare changes, because some methods stop working or start working better, what will become of those government agencies or tools?

    I prefer that the government rely upon citizen militias if their enemies are citizen ACLU/CAIR saboteurs. Creating government tools, which require government bureaucracy and funding, cannot compete with loosely organized groups of volunteer associations. The government will always be slower in the OODA loop than individuals, although they offset this somewhat by having a larger resource base than individuals.

  7. Is there anybody with a transcript to that show?

    That deserves hard copy.

  8. ymar, our Westphalian nation-state’s tax-payer funded, Congressional oversighted career bureaucrats and political appointees are always going to be on the wrong side of the OODA loop when trying to defeat Insurgent Supportive Elements with all the rights of a U. S. citizen, especially when when those citizens are constituents of powerful politicians who oppose counterinsurgency and benefit from Counterinsurgent setbacks.

    Strategic Citizens with unencumbered First Amendment rights, unbeholding to the House of Saud or the House of Soros, independent of either the Republicans or the Democrats, are the only force left who might be able to wage political warfare and annoy the Near Enemies.

  9. Ym:

    “To what use are the definitions of 4th and 5th generational warfare concepts to counter-propaganda and counter-terrorism activities?”

    Terrorism and propaganda are mostly the tools of 4GW. It is not economical to fight (counter) them with 2GW or 3GW. A category framework like the xGW helps you think about your response.

    If you are fighting what is a 4GW, and all of your tacticts are 2GW and 3GW you will most likely loose the moral conflict straight up, or you will need to go biblical on your opponent.

    XGW allows you to consider your response approach.

    “However, there are certain concepts which are always going to work, like maneuver warfare and getting inside an enemy’s OODA decision loop cycle.”

    Agreed. But getting inside the OODA loop of an opponent is done differently in 4GW then in 3GW. In 3GW it is done by speed and maneuver. IN4GW it is done by weaponizing things not thought to be weapons to screw up the Orientation (and the the Observation somewhat) of your opponent.

    “prefer that the government rely upon citizen militias if their enemies are citizen ACLU/CAIR saboteurs. Creating government tools, which require government bureaucracy and funding, cannot compete with loosely organized groups of volunteer associations. ”

    I see what you are saying and I agree somewhat.

    Clearly, the best way to fight a network is with another network. If the gov can create networks to do this that would be fine. I am completely okay with citizen militias taking this upon themselves. The feds should accommodate this type of citizen response.

  10. Can:

    “Is there anybody with a transcript to that show?”

    I wish there was so it was google-able. Maybe I will make up the transcript myself and annotate it with links and footnotes.

    “Strategic Citizens with unencumbered First Amendment rights, unbeholding to the House of Saud or the House of Soros, independent of either the Republicans or the Democrats, are the only force left who might be able to wage political warfare and annoy the Near Enemies.”

    The USGOV must embrace the human capital of its citizens and enable the above type of action by strategic US citizens on behalf of USA (that is a preview of my upcoming post).

  11. You work on your upcoming post. I’ll work on a transcript.

  12. […] purpleslog was on Covert Radio last Friday, 9 May, 2008 and he and I both agree that his words from that interview deserve cut & pastable dissemination. Welcome everybody to a brand new edition of Covert Radio. I’m your host, Brett Winterble. Over the next 25 minutes or so we’re going to be visiting with somebody who explores the theoretical angles of warfare. This isn’t a policy-maker or any kind of a head of state or any kind of a participant in any think tank. This is a gentleman who blogs in a different kind of area, an area that deals with the theory of warfare, that being Fifth Generation Warfare. So, without any further ado, let me go to an interview that I did with purpleslog. I don’t know his name, I just know his handle. purpleslog runs a blog, I don’t mean for that to rhyme, and he breaks down what he thinks will be the next arena of warfare. The next school of thought in warfare. It’s a kind of warfare called Fifth Generation Warfare, or 5GW, or 5G Warfare. Over the course of the next 15 minutes of so, he’ll take us into that sort of thinking, and into what he thinks wil be the challenges as we move forward in this country. I invite you now to join me in my discussion with purpleslog on the challenges of Fifth Generation Warfare, here on Covert Radio. I’m Brett Winterble, and this, is tomorrow’s headlines today. This is Covert Radio. Welcome to the show, purple. […]

  13. Forgive me for coming in late like I always do, but can you point me towards a summation of the XGW vs. Generations of War?

  14. Can: Thanks much!

    Justin: I will have post in the next week on the subject.

  15. Here are some other links to it (as the older Covert Radio post don’t seem to be on-line):

    http://www.podcastdirectory.com/podcasts/67319

    http://www.mediafly.com/Podcasts/Episodes/New_Covert_Radio_What_is_5th_Generation_Warfare

    I also have a lcoal copy I may post.

  16. All of the above links are bad. I still have a local version I will link/post.

  17. I can’t upload an MP3 to my blog without a co$t. So, I wi lconvert it to a mp4 and through it on YouTube eventually. My home PC is in a bad way, so This will take awhile. I can put a zip of it up though, if I can get at the MP3 on the bad drive.

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