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That sounds like 5GW to me

Cannoneer No 4 spots it:

@PurpleSlog In the real world the KGB is winning now. Look at us. Seeds planted by KGB generations ago now bear poisonous fruit

Let’s see…

– Memetic Engineering? Check.
– Long Time-lines? Check.
– Small Actions, step by step? Check.
– Institutional infiltration? Check.
– N-Order Effects are goal? Check.
– Done quietly? Check.
– The target actor overall doesn’t relaize it is ast war for the most part? Check.
– Those in the target actor set that do realize are ridiculed as conspiracy mongers? Check.
– All tactics used to avoid the 2GW/3GW power of the target? Check.

Sounds like 5GW to me.

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27 Responses

  1. Deadliest Warrior KGB vs CIA who wins?
    8:05 PM Jul 13th via TweetDeck

    @cannoneerno4 In the real world, the KGB was winning. Mike Baker is a god though.
    8:47 AM Jul 14th via web in reply to cannoneerno4

    COMINTERN’s plan for America survived the fall of the Soviet Union, if it dd indeed fall instead of rebrand itself.

    McCARTHY WAS RIGHT!

    John A. Stormer was right, too. So were the Birchers.

    Howard Zinn WAS a Communist.

    There really was a Long March Through the Institutions, just like Antonio Gramsci described and Glenn Beck talks about. We’ll find out in 3 months whether the rot is reversible.

  2. […] Cannoneer No 4 spots it:@PurpleSlog In the real world the KGB is winning now. Look at us. Seeds planted by KGB generations ago now bear poisonous fruitLet's see…- Memetic Engineering? Check.- Long Time-lines? Check.- Small Actions, step by step? Check.- Institutional infiltration? Check.- N-Order Effects are goal? Check.- Done quietly? Check.- The target actor overall doesn't relaize it is ast war for the most part? Check.- Those in the target … Read More […]

  3. After all these years, the ring still years to return to the hand of its master.

  4. The fall elections will settle nothing.

  5. You don’t defeat Active Measures by pointing them out, you defeat them by doing them better than your adversary.

    Yes McCarthy and others were right that there were communists in government and many other places, but McCarthy and the Birchers et al. undermined the effort to defeat them because they acted like nutjobs. The consequence of their behavior was to discredit legitimate concerns about communist political and espionage operations. They were the perfect foil for the leftists: the Washington Generals to the left’s Harlem Globetrotters. We see the same thing going on today. It’s not good enough to be right. You have to execute the right strategy. You have to attract people, not repel them. You have to influence them without them knowing they were influenced. Your ideas have to be so attractive that they want to adopt them, want to be known as being associated with them, want to be self-motivated to proselytize and organize — all without thinking that they are doing anything. There are too many people today repeating the McCarthy-Bircher mistake.

  6. Your perception has been managed to believe McCarthy and the Birchers acted like nutjobs. Are you old enough to have personally witnessed any nutjobbery from them, or do you base your thoughts, emotions and objective reasoning about them on what has been fed to you?

  7. You don’t defeat Active Measures by pointing them out, you defeat them by doing them better than your adversary.

    I would agree with the above somewhat.

    If the target population (the third world gen pop, 1st world “intellectuals”) could be influenced to be aware the other side is treating them like a patsy and using them, that would neutralize (inoculate?) the active measures somewhat. The key here is the target population becomes aware of how they are being manipulated…preferably this awareness is perceived to come from inside their community, not from outside of it.

    The alternate would be pure active measures targeting the same target population (the third world gen pop, 1st world “intellectuals”) but to spread memes to our (the USAs) liking.

    Both require a commitment (time, money, people) to build up this capability over time. I don’t think the USGOV is doing is building the capability. Private US groups (mostly left-leaning) are.

  8. Your perception has been managed to believe McCarthy and the Birchers acted like nutjobs.

    I think it is a bit of both. There is big bit of the ridiculous in the former Senator from my state – Tailgunner Joe.

    Also, clearly those sympathetic to the left have purposely over-time played down and covered up:

    – [1919-1920’s] Red Scare

    – [1930’s-1950’s] Infiltration of CPUSA into USGOV and other important institions

    – [Later 1960’s, early 1970] Left-wing Radical mostly BoomerGEN groups actively align with enemies of USA and hope for violent over through

    – [1980’s – Present] Left-wing Boomers grow up, and as Strategic Citizens infiltrate USGOV and important institutions and begin to subvert from within what they could not overthrow from without.

  9. Can:

    Look at the above time-line. That is why I don’t think the ideological struggle end with the fall elections.

    • Ideological struggles don’t end even when the opposing ideology is defeated, discredited, rendered politically incorrect and socially unacceptable, its adherents purged from public life and its leaders tried, convicted and jailed or executed by Truth and Reconciliation tribunals.

      The losers just go underground and reemerge rebranded Neo-whatevers.

  10. “Your perception has been managed to believe McCarthy and the Birchers acted like nutjobs.”

    In fact I’ve just hired a manager for my perceptions, she comes highly recommended.

    So was William Buckley having his perceptions managed when he denounced the Brichers and ran them out of the conservative movement?

    Was Eisenhower a communist agent?

    • Buckley was in the perception management business, himself.

      I have no personal knowledge of Eisenhower being a communist agent and am disinclined to take seriously any claims that he was. He did, however, halt the US 9th Army to keep it from getting to Berlin before the Soviets did. He did accept non-victory in Korea. He did nothing while Hungary attempted to throw off the Soviet yoke and were brutally suppressed. He did severely screw Britain and France over Suez. His apologists have explained all that, of course, to the satisfaction of all sane people, right?

      Everything you or I or anybody else under the age of 70 think we know about McCarthy, the John Birch Society, Buckley, and Eisenhower is based on what the authors of the sources we base our knowledge upon wanted us to think.

      • “His apologists have explained all that, of course, to the satisfaction of all sane people, right?”

        Seriously? Your throwing Eisenhower under the bus?

  11. Phil:

    “So was William Buckley having his perceptions managed when he denounced the Brichers and ran them out of the conservative movement? Was Eisenhower a communist agent?”

    Nope.

    The left has tried to re-write history by making it “common knowledge” that all of those spotting the activity of the communist were ridiculous, or Birchers, or McCarthyism-type. This has led subsequent revelations to be immediately branded in the mind of the general public of not worthy of consideration – which provides security for future active measure type actions.

  12. “The left has tried to re-write history by making it “common knowledge” that all of those spotting the activity of the communist were ridiculous, or Birchers, or McCarthyism-type. This has led subsequent revelations to be immediately branded in the mind of the general public of not worthy of consideration – which provides security for future active measure type actions.”

    I am aware of that and don’t disagree with it. The left will seek to discredit anyone who opposes them by associating their opponents with something negative or ridiculous. Therefore you should be careful with your rhetoric so that you do not give them a “gift” that they can use against you. Why did Buckley feel that it was necessary to distance the conservative movement from the Birchers? Because he was savvy enough to know that the conservative movement would be discredited by being associated with them. But it was the Birchers who gave a “gift” to the left by making ridiculous claims like saying that Eisenhower was a communist agent.

    http://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm/goldwater–the-john-birch-society–and-me-11248

    Like I said above, it’s not good enough to be right, you have to have the right strategy. As you know, the left is very sophisticated at doing this. They spend a lot of time and effort thinking and studying persuasion and communication. A good example is the paper I emailed you. We need to have a clear understanding of communist political operations, but when we craft our rhetoric we need to do so with the knowledge of how the left will react.

    • The non-Left will never have the centralized Agit-Prop apparat needed to craft rhetoric like the Left does.

      The non-left does not have Hungarian billionaire sugardaddies to subsidize them while they spend a lot of time and effort thinking and studying persuasion and communication. The non-left has to work for a living to acquire wealth to be redistributed.

      • “The non-left has to work for a living to acquire wealth to be redistributed.”

        So you’re saying that no one on the left has a job, only people on the non-left have jobs? Really?

        “The non-left does not have Hungarian billionaire sugardaddies to subsidize them”

        Scaife, Olin, Koch?

      • There are a lot rich people on the left. Everyone I know personally who is left or left leaning is employed gainfully (and I don’t mean as a community organizer or GOV Bureaucrat).

        I don’t think it would be true that nobody has the resources on the right to try what Soros does from the left.

        Even if it were true, so what? That doesn’t make the fight less just from the right PoV. You just need to counter his 5GW.

        Phile wrote “Like I said above, it’s not good enough to be right, you have to have the right strategy.” That is the key. The right needs more and better strategies.

        This is a war of attrition, not of single grand battles.

        Can, I don’t believe you think the war si lost, do you?

  13. Phil, you must have missed I have no personal knowledge of Eisenhower being a communist agent and am disinclined to take seriously any claims that he was. That hardly constitutes “throwing Eisenhower under the bus.” Your main beef about the Birchers seems to be they didn’t like Ike. Well, much of what he did or failed to do wasn’t all that likeable.

    Strategies are imposed from a central command. Collectivists can impose strategies from on high and expect their minions to implement them.

    Individualists are much more difficult cats to herd. Distributed, non-hierarchical information and political operations by millions of individuals acting to achieve a common objective will not be as focused and on-message in comparison to Collectivists, but that’s a feature, not a bug.

    And no, phil, I did not say that no one on the left has a job, only people on the non-left have jobs. Really, I didn’t.. All those Journolisters had jobs.

  14. So how did we get here? I have forgotten the pathway that led through the fog-shrouded forest.

    I am a natural smart ass and I enjoy the back and forth but it would be better if we were sitting around having a few beers and close enough to flip bottle caps at each other.

    The real question we should be dealing with is how to win. Regardless of what any of us may think of the Birchers, they were not successful at the war of ideas. They never came close to even challenging the left let alone actually being in a position to defeat them. And winning is about 2 things: achieving cultural hegemony in the Gramscian sense; and initiating a ruleset reset, that is implementing your ideals as a society’s institutions, rules, procedures, practices, etc. Our discussion needs to be about the strategies that will enable us to achieve those two goals. But we need to make a distinction between the ideals and the strategies. Criticizing a strategy is not the same thing as attacking an ideal. So how do we win?

  15. So how do we win?

    What do you mean we, Kemosabe?
    Define who is included, who “we” wish was included, who “we” really need included, and who “we” dont’ want included when “we” use that pronoun.

    Once we have defined who “we” are, “we” can define what “winning” looks like.

    • “We”

      When I say “We”, I mean US Citizens and Future US Citizens aligned with the core beliefs of the USA (e.g. All are created equal; natural right to life, liberty, property, and the pursuit of happiness; GOV exist only at the consent of the people, not the other way around) and accepting the governing social contract(e.g. a republic; separation of powers; federalism; US Constitution as the highest law of the land; equality for all before the the law)

  16. “The real question we should be dealing with is how to win. ”

    That is the bottom line.

    “And winning is about 2 things: achieving cultural hegemony in the Gramscian sense; and initiating a ruleset reset, that is implementing your ideals as a society’s institutions, rules, procedures, practices, etc. Our discussion needs to be about the strategies that will enable us to achieve those two goals.”

    We need to keep the above in mind.

    “So how do we win?”.

    That is the question and the mission. I need to think more on this. The answer is where we can make a real contribution.

  17. […] Posted on August 13, 2010 by purpleslog From a question by Cannoneer No. 4 made here: When I say “We”, I mean US Citizens and Future US Citizens aligned with the core beliefs of […]

  18. “So how do we win?”

    This question was discussed here:

    http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/14446.html

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